I have a word of warning for those in the Christian church claiming to be prophets, watchmen and seers who are putting out prophetic words about Donald Trump, the fate of America, the rest of the world, the end times and everything and everyone else. Mark this and mark it well: All the biblical prophets of YHVH Elohim in both the Old and New Testaments including the apostles were Torah-obedient. To believe otherwise is to believe a lie. Period.
Most today who claim to be hearing from Elohim don’t even know what the Torah is, how to define it and, moreover, are often blaspheming (wittingly or unwittingly) the Torah by speaking against it. Yeshua said of the Torah, “Think not that I am come to destroy the Torah-law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Torah-law, till all be fulfilled” (Matt 5:17–18). Of such prophets and everyone else, Yeshua concluded by saying, “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Torah-commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 5:19). According to Yeshua, those who speak against the Torah will be least in his kingdom. Mark these words well, you who claim to be prophetic!
Moreover, most who call themselves prophets and watchman are unaware of the biblical truth that there are eleven levels of a prophet. Most so-called modern prophets are operating at the lowest levels, and may not even hold the office of a prophet despite their claims. Many are simply walking in their own delusions and are being strengthened and affirmed in their delusions by a Babylonian church system that is as equally spiritually errant, blind and ignorant of biblical truth as they are.
Furthermore, most so-called prophets do not know the difference between an apostolic prophet and a church prophet. One who is the latter and is trying to act as the former may actually fall into the category of being a presumptuous prophet (a biblical term), and is, in reality, one who is usurping authority that doesn’t belong to him.
Moreover, not only are most prophets not Torah-obedient as they should be, but they do not recognize the difference between a false prophet and a spiritually blind prophet who prophesies out of the dictates of his own heart, thus making him a carnal prophet (like Balaam).
Before you speak another word in the name of YHVH Elohim (“the LORD God”), you would be advised to understand these truths and become compliant to the whole counsel of YHVH’s word. Until you do, you will bring Elohim’s judgment upon yourselves as presumptuous and carnal prophets.
Amen, well said
Will there be ears to hear…… most like listening to their own thoughts. FJ
So….I’m not denying that this is true. I just have a question about people like Demitri Dutiman, Henry Grover, Pastor Wilkerson. All said they were given assignment its from the LORD to warn America. So what do we do with their warnings??
I’m familiar with all three. Have read Wilkerson’s books and have heard the prophecies of the other two.
Wilkerson denied being a prophet. He says he simply read the Bible and based on what it said extrapolated out what he saw coming on America. He was pretty accurate so far.
The other two, we’ll have to see if what they prophesied comes to pass.
Whether these men know/knew it or not, they were pretty Torah observant minus the feasts, Sabbath and dietary laws and a few other things. To the degree that we obey the Torah and don’t speak against it, that is to the degree that we won’t grieve the Ruach and our message will be accurate, since our eyes aren’t blinded and biased by our own wrong thinking and beliefs. To the degree that we disobey the Torah and teach against it, that is the degree to which our prophecies will be inaccurate, since we’re prophesying with spiritual blind spots in our understanding of the Word of Elohim. To one degree or another, these men were likely prophesying from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and maybe some from the tree of life. There will be both good and evil/truth and error in their messages. Watch and see. Time will tell. The Bible tells us that a prophet is judged by whether what he says comes to pass or not.
I have personally heard Gruver speak forcefully against the Torah. That was about 15 years ago. Not good. I have heard through the grapevine (can’t confirm it though) that he has changed his viewpoint for the positive. I hope so. If so, that’s good!
Please believe me, I’m not arguing this point. I do my own best to be Torah observant, I’m about 2 yrs into my own walk. However, your comment “Whether these men know/knew it or not, they were pretty Torah observant minus the feasts, Sabbath and dietary laws and a few other things.”: doesn’t this describe a least a majority of the Sunday Church?? I’m just trying to wrap my mind around just how Torah Observant one has to be.
Yes and no. Now we’re getting into the nitty gritty details where it gets difficult.
Statistically, only 10 percent of the those in the Sunday churches meet the biblical criteria for being born again. That was in 1995 according to the Barna Research Group. Don’t know what the stats are today. Doubt it’s higher than that. So that lowers the number tremendously.
Next, the the leaders are held to a much higher spiritual accountability than the laity according to the Bible. Those who know better and teach against the Torah anyway, even if they follow certain aspects of it, will be judged more harshly. I can’t make those judgments as to where each one is, since it’s not mine to do, nor do I know their hearts.
Those who have genuine prophetic gifts from heaven may or may not be using them correctly. The prophetic gifts have to be filtered through the soul (mind, will and emotions) before they come out the mouth. This is a problem when the soul has been corrupted by anti-Torah teachings and other false doctrines and non-biblical traditions of men. This is an area none of us are walking perfectly in. Don’t know where the guys mentioned fit into this.
Moreover, many who claim to hear from “the Lord” are a) hearing only partially, b) hearing with blinders on, c) listening to their emotions in part or en toto, d) listening to their own minds, e) listening to each other, f) listening to deluding spirits, or g) a total liar and fraud conning the church for $. Just because someone claims to be a prophet, is acknowledged by the church world to be one doesn’t mean they are. They may be totally correct, partially correct or totally incorrect.
One who is walking as much in line with the full counsel of YHVH’s Word as possible including all of the Torah possible, is born again and Spirit filled, has his soul man totally in check and submitted to the Spirit of Elohim and has the fullest understanding of the word of Elohim as possible is most likely to receive and deliver a correct prophetic word. To the degree that one isn’t doing the above, is to the degree that one will be off.
As far as the church prophets go, I have heard many of them, but have pretty much put them all on a shelf and pay minimal regard to them anymore. I’m not part of the Babylonian church system anymore. They may or may not be correct. Only time will tell. I don’t worry myself too much with them. Bless them all, but they’re where they’re at and I’m where I’m at. They’re YHVH’ problem, not mine to deal with.
Well said & explained Natan…wholeheartedly agree with everything you have written & so willingly taken the time to explain & define what a true prophet is & should be; re Torah obedience etc because
I’m sure most that call themselves a Prophet etc & give themselves this title, do not follow the Torah …etc
I am aware of so many on you tube etc many claim to have seen visions or been translated(as if they were really there) ;even seeing end time events coming on America etc….Fema camps etc….the very disobedient ,apostate churches etc may have to go thru fiery trials….???leading up to end times…….so many voices out there…especially since the election & Inauguration,& even before that.
I think most people in U.S.were so desperate for(a change of Govt & so worried re Hillary getting into power) because of the outcome of this election & inauguration believers in all camps.especially Sunday churches, evangelicals etc were seeking many prophetic voices etc & confirmations.Boy we wont forget November 8 th & 20th January for a long time …’I’m happy Elohim has it all in his hands ..he knows all the outcomes.But we are called to seek him in every important situation.
Shalom to all
Hello again Natan..just thought I would share this, have only shared it with 1 other person of recent; my youngest son was 6 yrs old & in Prep school. We had been keeping sabbath for a few months.We were @ home one Shabbat morning..my husband was up earlier than myself & was in the lounge room with my 6 yr old.
Elliot looked up to the corner of the room & he Was looking up ;with his eyes fixed on the wall & ceiling.He described to my husband what he saw ..( I think he would have received an open vision?.)…we were both so amazed after he told us what he so clearly saw.
He was very calm about it..he saw 1) 2 large angels in white ..with silver trumpets..as he saw the trumpets.& focused on them he then saw like a scroll rolled down ..he did not mention Hebrew writing on it because he would not even know or understand Hebrew..back then in 2003, but he said it was beautiful writing..( scriptures ) & he remembers either seeing or hearing Yeshua is coming soon. the vision ended there…it was a one off..nothing like it again..but has had dreams that he can relate to around 8-10 yrs of age .he is now nearly 20 yrs old in march…still going strong in his faith..
I believe he was so tender hearted re Yeshua & the father ..etc…had been very excited when he heard the story of Jacob & Esau…& it was probably not long after that understanding that he saw what he saw in the room @ home
We just all pondered that & held it in our hearts…to this day…you r only the second person I have shared this with: regards Chapman family..
What an incredible blessing that YHVH would touch a young man’s life so early on in such a powerful way! When YHVH touches your life like that, you’re never the same! When heaven and earth meet and you’re in the middle of it, you can go on this power—like Elijah’s “angel’s food that gave him strength for 40 days—for a long time. Yah bless Elliot!
Would you mind sending me (to the Hoshana Rabbah email address) a photo of you and your boys? I like to have a picture in my mind when I pray for people.
Good morning Natan..lovely to read your reply”s. yes i will send a photo to the Hoshana Rabbah email address thank you so much Yah Bless you ALL.& your family
oh yes just remembered only last evening I was researching some info on”The Kansas
city prophets”..? only because someone had mentioned them regarding something I was listening to or reading( only recently)..I think from memory it was a young female believer from Canada
living in the U.S.& she attended for a very long time one of Rick Joyner”s churches…BUT…SHE DISCERNED AFTER A WHILE: THIS WAS WRONG TEACHING ,DOCTRINE..& came out of what she called the DOMINIONIST CHURCHES..ETC….
so many hrs of research & back to a year ago i researched & found a picture plus other articles re Rick Joyner ;who calls himself a Prophet (Morning star ministries ? something like that?written a few books also.) Photos of him & another by the name of Jerry Boykin….were dressed as Knights of Malta, u can find all the evidence( articles, pictures etc on the internet..its all there..I was shocked! R.J. ARTICLE ON WHY HE JOINED THE K.O.M. ETC: TIED IN WITH THE JESUITS & CATHOLICS ..WATCHED 2-3 VIDEOS LAST NIGHT ..LAST ONE BEING R.J. SAYS MARTIAL LAW MAY BE A NECESSARY & GOOD THING..////?? leave that with you… still pondering all I have read & found..
Sincere regards CC.
ALSO ..in research I have found info & videos on Kathryn Khulman …Maree Woodward Etter ? correct name & Aimee Semple Mcpherson…lots there …on these 3 women was an interesting study to discern..! whether True of some false.
Yes, I am aware of and have studied all that you have mentioned above for the past 20 years. As a watchman, I have to be aware of a lot of things. The Charismatic and Pentecostal movements, life the rest of churchianity, is full of the good, the bad and the ugly. It is part of the spiritual Babylon that Yah is calling his people out of (Rev 18:4). It is our job to separate the precious from the vile and keep the former and let go of the latter. Not always an easy process.
I pretty much have put all these people on a shelf and walked away from it all. That doesn’t mean they’re all bad. Some have good things to say. It’s just that they’re in a different world than me.
The reason I put out the warning about prophets is not so much to condemn or judge anyone, but to give us all an immutable biblical standard by which we can rightly discern truth from error, the wheat from the tares. It is now up to each of us to personally with the leading of the Ruach to apply these principles and to judge righteously by examining the fruits based on the Word of Elohim (John 7:24; Matt 7:15-20).
Thank you for your thoughts and feedback regarding this issue. Coming from the church system it all seemed very confusing in the beginning. But as we continue on this journey it becomes easier and easier to discern. His Word is so simple and close at hand. In our mouths and hearts to obey it. Shalom!
the Torah on my heart is HOW I know
My name is REPENTNTRUST sent by Him