New Video: The Month of Elul—Preparing for the Fall Biblical Feasts Posted on 09/07/2016 by Natan Lawrence Share this:TwitterFacebookPinterestEmailPrintMoreLinkedInTumblrRedditPocket
Do you think there is a possibility that the “New Moon” signifies the New Man in Yeshua, since the Sun foreshadows Yeshua (the source of Light) and the Moon (reflecting the light of the Sun) foreshadows the Church ?
Natan I so enjoyed this video, now 4:23 am my time in Melb Aust. Been a long day early morning up since 10am ..reading studying , talking with my boys ,meals etc. pondering lots of info I have been reading since Wednesday 09/07/2016.
Nuts & bolts of it is a programme I listened to by a believer called Benjamin Baruch ; I believe he lives in Idaho. He talked about Elohims signs in the sun, moon & stars..a new star I think he said ; discovered 10 years ago could be indicative of the return of The King Of Kings. Remembering the star of Bethlehem when Yeshua was born. That led me to look at a few other things & I found another site written by someone else on The Gospel in the Stars & the true Calendar.
You mentioned this aspect re ( the correct biblical Calendar ) in the beginning of this video. I’m reminded of the verses in Isaiah Chapter 66 : verse from one new moon to another & from one sabbath to another : all flesh would come & worship Elohim, so it really just confirmed to me the way Elohim was leading me over the last 4 days.
The new moon being the key to us understanding the beginning of biblical months, days, years etc. ( Lunar solar calendar instead of the GREGORIAN SOLAR CALENDAR WE ARE USED TO : SET BY ROME ..THE ARTICLE SAID IM PRETTY SURE IN MESSIAHS DAY – 8 days of the week…it showed calendar egs. So New Moon Sighting then count 7 days from that ( 6 working days then a sabbath ) = 8th, 15 th 22 nd ,29 th day of the month.
It also described the days of the week being named after pagan gods Monday- moon day, Tues / Mars day , Wednesday / Wodens day, Thurs.. Friday etc .. /Saturday from saturns (satyrday & Sunday from venerable day of the sun.. In scripture NT. talks re SABBATH & FIRST DAY OF WEEK ..NO OTHER TERM ( name days ) ARE MENTIONED.
So it really got me pondering the correct biblical calendar & we know the term seasons in the True Hebrew is Moedim ( Elohms appointed times to meet with his people.) etc.would value what you think here : also seeing what Rome has done since the era of Constantine & before that..& the counterfeit of such. You did mention in this video confusion re the true biblical calendar, sighting of the New Moon.ETC.
A SEEKER SEEKING TRUTH …YOU MENTIONED SO MANY VITAL THINGS IN THIS VIDEO….THE 5 WISE VIRGINS & THE 5 FOOLISH ETC..THE GREATEST & THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM ( Marriage supper of the Lamb) ..WHEN YESHUA RETURNS AS THE CONQUERING KING, …..YOUR EMPHASIS ON KEEPING & REMEMBERNG THE MOEDIM ( His appointed times…) he comes as a ” THIEF IN THE NIGHT” …MY HEART WAS REALLY PUMPING THEN AS YOU MENTIONED THIS VERSE .
ABOUT A YEAR AGO OR SO
IN THE EARLY HRS OF THE AM I HAD A VIVID DREAM ( in the dream I saw a “thief” “, robber going out of the back sliding doors in my home , it was so real that I spoke ( yelled) ! out in my sleep to my husband; quick wake up Brian we are being robbed & I saw a man’s face looking back over his shoulder as if going out our back sliding door with a box in his hands as if he was carrying something out of the house I really thought it was a robber ; ( thief in the house ) it took me a few days of prayer & searching & then found the verse. Ping moment Ah ha …Father showing me in a dream what he meant. ….I think he said in the scripture if the owner of the house had known ( watching , being awake ) the time (hr) the thief was coming he would have not let his house be broken into. BUT YOU BRETHREN ARE NOT IGNORANT THAT THAT DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU.
Praise father in the natural we have not had an intruder : but boy it was real in the dream.
Shalom to you all kind regards CC.
The new moon starts the month, but not the week as those who propose the lunar “Sabbath” erroneously teach. I have dealt with this false doctrine elsewhere for those who are interested.
Thank you Natan for clarifying re new moon starts the month; ( but not the week: that is clear for me now.)
We get this basic truth from Genesis 1:19 which says that the sun and moon were created as visible signs in the heavens to determine season or the moedim (YHVH’s appointed times; i.e., the feasts)—not the Sabbath which was determined by the weekly cycle. According to Lev 23:2–3, technically the feasts are both appointed times (moedim) and holy assemblies, but the weekly Sabbath is simply a holy assembly.
The days of the week are a bit of a trap….if only we would number them from where they begin In Jerusalem as the bible tells us.
Now that many people coming into Torah obedience understand that a month begins in Jerusalem. It would be nice for the realisation that a day begins & ends in Jerusalem as well to be recognised.
When this is finally acknowledged
the consequence of the 7th day (Shabbat) beginning and ending in Jerusalem too will go forth and the international dateline made up by men in the late 18th Century would not hold us to the lie of worshipping on the Friday sunset to the Saturday sunset which means Australians’ & many other nations worship Elohim on the day before Shabbat begins in Jerusalem.
I have changed to Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset after realising this fact even after I had already negotiated a change to my job to keep the “Shabbat” of Friday to Saturday.
This whole issue of when to worship was debated by the Jewish Rabbinical authorities in the 18 Century and a determination was made to follow the dateline & keep Friday/Saturday instead of Truth of the 7th day alone.
Sometimes we are so silly in our determinations. It is easy enough to work out on a Gregorian Calendar & the dateline. Just use the day after if your sunset happens before Jerusalems’ for the 7th day…….so you end up following instead of leading.
Blessings of Shalom to All who love & seek truth.
FJ from NSW Australia.
Hmm, this is a new one to me. Not sure if I can agree with you are not. At this point, I’m inclined to not agree.
The feast days start with the sighting of the new moon in Jerusalem. That is clear from history and from what will be going on in the Millennium based on the writings of the biblical prophets. The weekly Sabbath never was determined from Jerusalem, but starts wherever you are on the planet at the end of the sixth day at sunset just as Genesis one states and as the Creator set us an example to follow. Man is to work six days and to rest on the seventh day starting at sunset. Period. The Sabbath begins whenever the sixth day ends wherever you happen to be. The question then must be asked, when and where did YHVH the Creator first establish the Sabbath? This would be the starting place for it, and the rest of the world would follow in order after that. How the dateline figures in, I’m not sure.
Re your keeping the Sabbath from Saturday night to Sunday night as being the real Sabbath, in some 50 years as a Sabbath keeper, I’ve never heard the argument you put forth before. I’ll have to think about it, but something about it seems off to me. I’ll get back to you on this one.
Shalom & Thanks Natan for at least thinking about it.
It is definitely not what we have been taught to follow when using the conveniences of the Gregorian calendar & IDL. As a believer trying to learn obedience in love to Torah I no longer use midnight to signify when a day starts and ends for worship purposes now that I know clearly what the bible says about that.
This is a continuation of learning & testing to seek the truth of the matter.
As I said I originally kept the Friday evening to Saturday evening once I came closer to Yeshua as being the living Torah because I assumed it was the correct unifying practise.
I had to reconsider that truth because a trip to Hawaii made me cognisant when I chose to re-arrange my travel to not be travelling on Shabbat. After that I then I started to pray & meditate about the International dateline & where & who is actually the determiner of days.
America naturally follows a Jerusalem Shabbat/Feast without any difference so it is not expected to be part of your mindset to think about.
For me in Australia all the Feasts are in the opposite season as well! That doesn’t concern me at all as Elohim made the hemispheres but man made the IDL.
In my prayers for blessings.
Love in Messiah.
Thankyou for the Shofar teaching. How we need to live in repentance to be lifted into the purposes of life in Yeshua.
If you’re going to be keeping Shabbat exactly when it is being done in Jerusalem, then you would not only have to do so on the same day, but on the same hours. Right? This would mean that the Sabbath in Australia would be beginning, not at sunset on Saturday, but sometime, I presume in the middle of the day or night, depending on when the exact time sundown is occurring in Israel. The same could be said of the feasts. Currently (and historically and in the future as well), the Jerusalem new moons determines which day to keep the feasts on, but we don’t keep them at the same exact time as they do in Jerusalem. Each time zone keeps the feasts in their appointed time as the earth is revolving on its axis. (I suppose the flat earth crowd would have a different opinion about this!) The same is true of the Sabbath. Day one is in the Middle East, since that’s where the Garden of Eden was located when the Creator established the seventh day Sabbath, and the rest of the world follows suit each on their own day—but not on the exact hour and the exact same time as Jerusalem.
So I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that we must keep the Sabbath at the exact same time as they do in Jerusalem. We don’t even do that with the biblical feasts.
Shalom again Natan
sorry the impression was worshipping at the exact same time as Jerusalem concurrently.
I work on sunsets to delineate a day as scripture says for worship. If My Local sunset Friday is used for Shabbat it is before the actual start of the 7th day Shabbat in Jerusalem.
America follows after the start of Shabbat (7th day) in Jerusalem but Australia is expected to have Shabbat before Jerusalem simply because of the IDL making it “Friday” before Jerusalem has “Friday” sundown. Whatever happened to the 7th day?
It takes a bit to wrap your head around what I am saying. But if I have to wait for Jerusalem to determine the month shouldn’t that also remain constant for the Shabbat? Or is it correct to use 2 different time measuring systems for worship?
Sorry for the headache but it is a genuine search for truth and not a pet thing trying to bring confusion amongst the brethren.
Love in Messiah
After some reflection, I think you’re right on this, though I won’t fault those who keep a traditional Friday sundown to Saturday sundown Sabbath.
It seems to me that Jerusalem should be the start of the Sabbath and the rest of the world should follow, since the law goes forth from Jerusalem according to Isaiah 2:3 and Micah 4:2. As is, as you state, because of the current dateline, Australia keeps the Sabbath before instead of after Jerusalem, which is technically in correct. The international dateline should be in the time zone just to the east of the land of Israel, so that time zone would be the last to keep it. Australia isn’t in the last time zone before Jerusalem, but near it. So I see your point. If I lived down under, I’d have to seriously think about this one and maybe readjust my Sabbath date as you have, although I wouldn’t fault those who keep it on the current date, since it’s a confusing issue and not everyone is there yet.
so glad that what I had written is a bit clearer to you now. I, in no way would choose to be a Torah bully about this situation to a Friday keeper here & hope I would have the good sense not abuse someone who does not understand as I do; with my words unintentionally. Judge as you would be like to be judged….Especially when a Friday Sabbath keeper is seeking earnestly, as me, for peace with our Creator in true worship.
I have been in prayer and meditated about this for some time before changing to fit to scripture. At present it is no problem as I worship alone & with my husband a little interested but in the nearer future I believe Elohim will call me to go out & witness Torah more. ( He is preparing me) I said to Elohim, I am prepared to keep a Friday Sabbath if He wants me to last night…. so as not to ‘push a point if it is wrong as I don’t want to bring in a false teaching’ or if this understanding of Elohim’s will for another may not be able to be processed in their stage of the journey of seeking the truth of the Father.
May His will be done & we accept graciously the row He asks us to plough.
Love in our most wonderful Messiah
I believe you’re on the right path and the have a heart of love and humility that is pleasing to our Father as you grow in his Spirit and truth. May YHVH continue to lead and guide you in his paths of righteousness. If I lived in Australia, I’d be asking the same questions as you are and might be doing the same thing. I hope this encourages you.
THANKYOU FJ on your thoughts : appreciate your input & wisdom on the matter. See you are an Aussie also. Regards from CC & family.
See Natan has given more insight into the matter so that is great. Appreciate the time you guys have put into this discussion. Blessings to all that follow & respond to Natans blog. Keeps us on our toes.It is good for brethren to be able to discuss & bring important matters into the light. If we don’t ask ; we don’t get the answers we need.
So thank you Natan & others who read these wonderful articles & discussion. Blog.
Soo helpful.regards from CC.
Dear Natan & FJ, CC HERE AGAIN…..I WAS JUST READING UPDATED REPLYS TO THE DISCUSSIONS RE START OF SABBATH ETC….AND I TYPED IN TIME IN JERUSALEM NOW.! ..[ WELL CURRENTY IN AUST. MY TIME IS FRI. 9:00 PM EASTERN STANDARD TIME. ] ….IN JERUSALEM ISRAEL IT IS 2 :00 pm ..FRIDAY SO THEY ARE 7 HRS APPROX. BEHIND DARKNESS HERE.
THE SUNSET HERE AT ABOUT MAYBE 7:00 pm ..SO I FIGURED SHABBAT IN JERUSALEM ISRAEL MAYBE 5- 7 MORE HRS AWAY FROM CURRENT TIME OF 2:00 PM…SO POSSIBLY WHEN IT IS 3:00 am MY TIME IN MELB…..IT WILL BE SUNSET IN JERUSALEM. ( beginning of their Shabbat while I am sleeping. So when I wake up …depending what time?? , they will be sleeping but I’m thinking Sunset to Sunset …they will be sleeping early hrs but we in Aust would be well into the daytime ….maybe my time 9:00 am .
So we here would be a bit ahead by @. Least 6 hrs ..of the 7 th day.
Interesting …..hope this doesn’t sound too double Dutch. Reading GENESIS CHPT 1 v5 AND ELOHIM CALLED the light DAY, and the darkness he called NIGHT.
AND THE EVENING & THE MORNING WERE THE FIRST 1st DAY.
Blessings & regards to all who seek our Heavenly Father.
You are getting your testing cap on & it seems you figure as I have that Australia is ahead. Hope you have read Natan’s response & that this helps & doesn’t throw you into a spin. I simply just follow the day behind in Gregorian days Sat evening sunset to Sunday evening sunset here in Australia.
No condemnation from me as to what the Spirit reveals as each walk with Him has different starting points to come into understanding, you must be convicted by His Spirit otherwise you follow men …..I started with learning Shabbat applies to any person Elohim created & those who know about Faith in Elohim through Messiah ought to learn how Yeshua walked which isn’t an overnight finished work but a process like being married is not finished on the day a vow is taken but is daily unto death.
Love in learning to walk in Messiah & study ourselves approved to live righteously.
Praise the lover of our Souls/Beings.
Maybe one day we may meet if Elohim wills too.