John 3:13, No one has ascended to heaven. Most Christians believe that when they die, they immediately go to heaven in spite of Yeshua’s clear statement in this verse.
Many believers see this verse as referring to saints who died before his resurrection, but not true of those who died afterwards, even though Yeshua doesn’t say this. Therefore, they reason, this is why, according to Peter, David, who was born before Yeshua, is still resting in his grave awaiting the last days resurrection (Acts 2:29). If what the majority Christians believe on this subject is true, then the saints of old are second class citizens and YHVH is a respecter persons (which he is not, see Acts 10:34; Rom 2:11) in that they have to wait for resurrection day and for their ultimate reward of eternal life, while saints born since Yeshua receive their glorified bodies immediately upon death.
Laying aside all the church traditions and doctrines of men, what does the Bible in the simplest and clearest terms say about the timing of the saints receiving immortality? Paul states that the resurrection of all the dead saints and their receiving immortality occurs not at the time of their physical death, but at the second coming of Yeshua at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:51–54; 1 Thess 4:13–18 cp. Rev 11:15, 18).
In reality, men’s eternal inheritance isn’t heaven, but the New Jerusalem, which is coming down from heaven to the new earth (Rev 21:2).
Many believe we go to heaven because of Luke 23:43 which has Jesus speaking to the thief on the cross saying, ‘Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.’ If the comma is moved from before Today and put after today, the whole meaning changes. In word-for-word and letter-by-letter analyses of the Bible, meanings have been changed by various translators that have twisted the true meaning of particular scriptures.
Actually, in Koine Greek (which the NT has come down to us in) has no punctuation marks at all including commas. So the comma was added by translators, but is not in the original. As you’ve correctly noted, the addition, subtraction and placement of commas can make a world of difference in the meaning of something.
There are many mainstream Christian doctrines that are predicated on obscure, mistranslated or twisted understandings of Scriptures. This is one of them. There are so many other examples that I could give! As long as I’m working a full time job, I don’t see how I’ll ever have time to publish all the studies I’d like to do on various biblical subjects.
Natan, you really got me thinking (praying) on this one! So I have more questions:
Since we don’t inhabit the New Jerusalem until at the end of the Millenium (Rev 221:2 ff), where do the saints go and what are they doing after they die and before the end of the thousand years? I Th 5:13-18 says the dead in Christ will rise first. Rise from what? If they are already in heaven, they surely can be RISING?
Can someone who dies now before the Second Coming rise with their inner man (spirit or spirit and soul) leaving their decaying body (or ashes if they were cremated) in the grave? And then their glorified body is “reunited” with spirit and soul at Jesus’ return?
What about the tribulation saints that don’t see death? Do they stay on earth and work with Jesus to restore it?
Years ago, I heard a SDA teaching on soul sleep re: departed saints to be resurrected for the Judgment Seat of Christ. Do you understand something similar?
Revelation 6:9-11 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 seem to indicate that the saints in heaven are in some type of bodiless state.
As you can see, you’ve stirred up a lot of questions. It’s all your fault, Natan! Thanks for being a good teacher! 🙂
BTW, Sandra, above you’ve made such a good point about interpretation. Oh, what a difference a comma makes!!!
You’ve asked a lot of questions, that I don’t have the time to answer right now. Some of them are answered in a short article I wrote on the subject of the state of the dead at http://hoshanarabbah.org/pdfs/state_of_dead.pdf.
I’ve never read, studied or heard any SDA teaching on the state of the dead. My conclusions are simply from my own study of the Scriptures and ancient history on the subject.
New to this website and blog. So far love it. It’s so easy to enjoy people with whom I agree. The misunderstaining of this topic in particular, has, I think, been the cause of so much fairy tale religion. We all should do our homework and know that what we believe is based on scripture, not hymns art and literature of the third century and onward in the church. Thanks, Natan. and all of my new friends in Yeshua. Keep me thinking……